Erica Nelson-Flowers: Thank you for joining us for another Inclusive Perspectives from the Baseline conversation. My name is Erica Nelson-Flowers, I'm the Director of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion for USA Texas. I'm humbled to be joined by Julian and Joaquin Castro, famously famous residents of San Antonio, Texas and huge tennis fans and players. I was thrilled to learn of a y’all’s connection to the sport and thank you again for joining us today.
Joaquin: Thank you for having us.
Erica: As we get started today, I wanted to certainly use this opportunity to talk about your connection to our sport. We are in the midst of Hispanic Heritage Month and I [appreciate] you sharing with our audience about the Hispanic culture, your family upbringing, and whatever else you want us to to know as we get to know you as people and as representatives of the Hispanic community. We'll start out with the tennis side.
From the standpoint of tennis, and in the decades you've been involved in the sport, Julian, can you start us off with just sharing your tennis journey?
Julian: Erica, thank you so much for having us join you and [I’m] happy to be a part of this USTA outreach. Yeah, I guess and Joaquin will correct me if I'm wrong on any of
these details since we're twins [...] but you know we grew up in the 80s and so we were watching tennis on TV and that was a time when you had big stars like John Mcenroe, Jimmy Connors and Chris Evert - big American tennis players.
I had a godmother, Linda, at the time who was very much into tennis and I think it was in 1987 – the summer of 1987. We heard that there was an older gentleman who turned out to be in his mid-80s who was teaching tennis at one of the local public high school courts near where we lived. So we went out there, we must have been about 13 years old, and basically started picking up the game of tennis. We had never really played much before. I don't even think we owned our own rackets at that point, but we borrowed some or got cheap ones. He had this one Lobster ball machine that had dents in it…
Joaquin: I remember it! His name was Larry Hart and I think he had been a World War II veteran. He was a veteran and he held his free camp for kids out there at Jefferson High School and, yeah, he had the lobster tennis machine and he could still play really well.
Julian: Yeah, he could still beat us even though we were like 75 years younger or something. But that’s how we got started.
We went there to public school courts that were open during the summer and with Larry Hart - a really nice guy - that was basically allowing folks for free to come and experience the joy of playing tennis.
Joaquin: We would be out there — you know how hot it gets in Texas right? That's one of the reasons that you have so many people that played tennis in Texas, because it's hot all the time and you can go outside — we would play in that 100-degree weather for seven or eight hours.
Julian: I think we’re still like 10 shades darker because we spent so much time out there.
Joaquin: I don't know how we did it, playing so long out there for so many hours, in 100-degree weather but we would just play all day.
Erica: In my research, correct me if I'm wrong here, I read somewhere that you once, or maybe more than once, played eight consecutive hours of tennis in 100-degree weather. Is that right?
Joaquin: We played a lot. I mean, our mom would take us there to the school and leave us there in the morning and then she would come back at five o'clock in the late afternoon or whatever it might be. So yeah, I mean we didn't even think twice about it back then. We'd be out there and just get so drenched in sweat.
Julian: Really like only kids can, right? Like kids that come here: ‘oh yeah,’ ‘okay,’ [and weren’t worried] about a heat stroke or heat exhaustion — [we would] just go out there for eight hours and play and play.
Joaquin: Now, as you get older, you don't want to go out unless it's the early morning or the late evening or at night because it's cooler. You know, you're ready but you're waiting for the right time.
Julian: I don’t think we ever put on any sunscreen either. But we had a world of a time and we loved learning how to play. We loved the people that we met, and we were so appreciative of Mr Hart for dedicating his time in his golden years to teaching young kids how to play. It stuck with us.
Erica: In the HBOMAX documentary for Hispanic Heritage Month that I saw that you two were featured in, one of you mentioned just being so competitive that you would smash your racket on the ground and how deep the competitiveness went. Another story I heard was that you all needed to be pulled apart because you were [arguing] with each other after or during a match …
Joaquin: We shared a room growing up and the whole time, so we were always together. We were always in the same room. I think that just carried over onto the tennis court and we were so competitive with each other. When we would play doubles [together,] even with other people, you know, we were still so competitive with each other that we were mad at each other when the other one messed up, so yeah … we probably bent a few rackets and busted some strings because of that.
Julian: You know, I've said that being a twin is like 99 blessings and one percent curse. Within the one percent curse is that, and I think other twins can probably relate to this: you're just so naturally competitive with each other and when we were kids that was especially true. Tennis was our kind of outlet to show that and so I think more than one racket was broken … don't worry, they weren't like 250 rackets or anything. [laughs] But you know, Joaquin and I battled it out. I think at one point, because we played on our high school tennis team, they really wouldn't let us play against each other anymore. [Only] doubles with each other and [we] found ways to get mad at each other even when we did that, even when we were on the same team.
Joaquin: That was also during the time [when] you had John McEnroe, Jimmy Connors, and all these like really temperamental tennis players whose matches we probably watched too.
Erica: So you were just a mini Jimmy Connors and John Mcenroe? Yeah, maybe not the best role models in terms of sportsmanship … yeah, but I get it. [laughs]
To either of you who wants to start: what role has sports played in in making
you into the person you are today, whether it was tennis or other sports you played growing up?
Julian: I mean, as I see it, it's been a part of making us more disciplined and well-rounded. At that age, because we started fairly young, you're learning about making friendships and all of those things that go into helping a young person develop and turn out. You know, as a father, I see [how it helped us] turn out the way that we want all of our kids to turn out right: well-rounded, able to have fun and into things that they love to do. For me, tennis was one of those things that, at that age especially, I spent a lot of time and love to do. [It] no doubt maybe kept me from doing other things that I shouldn't have been doing after school. When we were in high school, we were there on the tennis court having fun and doing it in a safe way and building relationships that were, you know, good.
Joaquin: I think Julian said it well and I think also you know, just like other things in your life, whether it's work or your relationships: it's a process and so playing tennis, especially competing, there's a process to it a process of learning and then even as you're playing in the game and the serve and the scoring and the rules and everything. I think that was just very helpful for things that we did later on is being disciplined and going through that process, going through the steps of different things trying to get better at each of those things from your serve to your forehand your backhand. You know, trying to fill in the gaps of where you weren't good at something or you needed to get better. You do a lot of that without realizing it, but looking back I think it's incredibly helpful for things that you go on and do later.
Erica: I would agree. Whether it's singles or doubles, it's definitely a sport that teaches you about adversity and how to be a good sport, how to exhibit good sportsmanship, and so many different qualities. Yes, thank you. Thank you both for that.
Since that young age of playing tennis, all the way into your 40s, what's kept you coming back to tennis when you have so many things vying for your time? There's family, friends, professional endeavors, commitments, etc. I just saw a recent picture on Julian’s Instagram account of the two of you playing tennis in August, so what is it about tennis that you keep coming back to after all these years?
Julian: I still keep playing it. It's a sport that you can get out there and it's very easily accessible. For us, it's something that because we also play basketball - we played football in Middle School and I played those different sports now with my son Christián – basketball, football, tennis … but with tennis it's such a one-on-one sport and you're playing against yourself as much as you're playing against the other person. It's the ultimate test every time. Yeah, you have a lot of fun - I have a lot of fun but you also are kind of testing yourself and always trying to improve. I guess that's what I enjoy about it and to this day I still get … Joaquin can tell you, of the two of us now, we used to both … you know, bang our rackets and get mad. I think that he got over that and I'm not ... I haven't broken any rackets, but he'll tell you that I'm the only one that still gets all angry…
Joaquin: That's because most of the time I’m winning. [laughs]
Julian: … but you know I still have a passion for it. Unfortunately, we don't get to do it quite as often these days when Joaquin is shuttling between San Antonio and Washington, and of course we have our families … but still love it!
Joaquin: Also, during the pandemic, like millions of other people, when everything stopped and there were only so many things that you were going to go do outside, it was just a perfect way to get back out there. Texas is usually always hot and so there's warm weather to go play outside. For singles tennis, I have my twin brother so I always have somebody there to play with so it's just perfect. It was perfect for us to be able to get back out there a lot and during the pandemic, you know we're not still fully over it yet, but during the early days of the pandemic especially, we were out there playing a lot.
Erica: I love it. It's fun to see that although you are both your biggest champions for each other there’s still that little competitiveness that I think comes out only on the tennis courts. When you step off the court, you go back to being each other's biggest fan, but it's fun to see that alteration there in terms of how you approach your relationship.
I did want to jump in with a question: We did ask members of our Texas tennis community to submit questions and there was one that I wanted to share with you all and get your insight. The question is from AJ Garcia. He's the director of USTA Junior Team Tennis at the Austin Tennis Academy and AJ's question is: “do you believe that there are any social or economic barriers that the Hispanic Community must overcome to expose our children to tennis and nurture the athletic talent in our communities?”
Julian: It's no secret that traditionally tennis, like golf in a lot of ways, was seen as really not a sport for people of color and seen as a “whiter” sport. It's also true that in terms of competing in tournaments, it can be a very expensive endeavor and I think that had that effect. Not to mention, I mean, in years past Generations past, the segregation and other laws that literally kept people of color from being able to participate.
But what's exciting is that, in tennis, you think about the Williams sisters for instance. [They] and some of the other players have opened up this whole new world and inspired a new generation of folks including a lot of folks in the Hispanic Community to think about taking up tennis and to actually do it. There are things that can be done through the USTA’s outreach programs in schools [and] especially among youth.
Investing in the infrastructure of tennis, especially in those neighborhoods where you might have a football field and basketball courts but you don't have tennis courts. Frequently those neighborhoods tend to be lower income. [It tends] to be people of color who live in those neighborhoods so making those investments. When I was on the city council in San Antonio I saw nonprofits that were doing great work putting basketball courts for instance into parks — I didn't see that kind of work as commonly for tennis courts. Perhaps this resurgence of interest in tennis and pickleball combined (and I know sometimes those two you know those two communities go at it) will help with an investment in those communities that too oftentimes got left behind in the past.
Joaquin: My wish would be for more tennis courts particularly in urban America, in the kinds of neighborhoods where we grew up. Our neighborhood, around the west side of San Antonio, were neighborhoods, some of them that were mostly Mexican-American, mostly low income, and so you didn't have a lot of people who could afford expensive rackets, but you know, you can go play with rackets that are fairly cheap now.
I'll drive past different schools sometimes or parks and and you see sometimes it seems like the tennis courts are the last thing to get the attention. The basketball courts get fixed or the fields and the tennis courts are sometimes allowed to become dilapidated. That's why I'm glad that the USTA is doing work and others are doing work to make sure that tennis is promoted. I think it's a great sport for our young folks. I think it's a great sport for Latinos. You have Latino players who have made an incredible mark in tennis: I think of Pancho Gonzalez, right? A lot of his victories came before the “Open Era” but [he is] just legendary in the sport of tennis, and I'm hoping that in the coming years they'll be even more folks in the places like the places where we grew up that will take [the sport] up.
Erica: Yes, thank you both for that. I'm hearing you talk, I'm thinking about Carlos Alcaraz, the winner of the US Open, from Spain. Yeah he’s a Hispanic representative, and so what does representation mean in terms of seeing someone who looks like you to aspire to? Do you, you two are perfect examples of this, aspire to do something because you see someone who looks like you? So thank you for that, yes … you're absolutely right. The USTA, and USTA Texas specifically, is identifying where coaches and courts are and where they aren't, where the communities are, and maybe where we can invest more time and effort into one making sure people are aware of where the courts are and how they can get on get onto them at low or no costs. Then, also certainly identifying places where maybe there are courts that are in need, so I appreciate what both of you had to offer there.
As we turn to Hispanic Heritage Month, you know we are really excited to be a part of our effort to elevate the stories the accomplishments the contributions of our Hispanic Community here in our great state and so I really wanted to start by just asking each of you, if we could start with you Julian: what does Hispanic Heritage Month mean to you?
Julian: It's about a celebration of a community that has contributed in every single way to the forward progress of our country: in the Arts and the Sciences, through business, and in the military. Recognizing the rich diversity within that Community, and people who come from all over South America, Central America, of course Mexico, and then folks who have been a part of this country in Puerto Rico for Generations.
I think about the journey that our grandmother made as a six or seven-year-old orphan from Mexico in 1922. We just marked a hundred years on August 9th. It has been a hundred years since the grandmother that we grew up with got here to the United States.
Hispanic Heritage Month really is about reflecting on all of those contributions that the community has made to the beautiful country that we are in today. And then, also I think resolving to try and continue breaking down barriers so that we can live up to the highest ideals of our nation and the Hispanic community and every other community has the opportunity to truly thrive and to reach their dreams.
Joaquin: And I would just add that I think, throughout history, a lot of the contributions … the positive contributions and the stories and the histories of the Latino community in the United States, have been missing from the larger American narrative. There has been this void in the narrative and so I think a lot of Americans really don't know who Latinos are or kind of the back story in their history. Hispanic Heritage Month is a celebration to fill in some of that gap of understanding for people about the contributions, as Julian mentioned, of Latinos and Hispanics to the United States of America over the years.
Erica: Thank you both. As we attempt, certainly specifically within the state of Texas, to celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month: think about what an ideal month of celebration would look like, what components do you think would help to create a level of education, a level of awareness, a level of celebration around the Hispanic Community. What would that look like in an ideal situation for you?
Joaquin: I think one of the most important things, not just in the states like Texas or California or New York that have heavy Latino populations, but really across the country for the nation [would be] to take this month in our schools and learn about Hispanic contributions to the country in different fields, whether it's in government, business, or culture … whatever it may be. In tennis, I mentioned Pancho Gonzalez for example, you know, [he is] sometimes a figure in tennis that I feel like, even though he was so great, that folks have forgotten over the years just how great he was. He was a Mexican-American from California who was at the top of the tennis game in those years and just celebrate that history and those contributions.
Julian: Yeah, I think the most important thing. I see this now, as a father especially, is for young people to understand that people like them have value and worth and have done great things and have contributed in a mighty way and also others who are not Latino or Hispanic to understand. I think that part of the solution to some of the polarization that we see in our country today is for people to just fundamentally understand each other's history. My hope would be during Hispanic Heritage Month that we would bridge some of that gap for the Latino Community.
Erica: Thank you both for that. It's certainly for me and my role with the USTA not to keep our celebrations to one particular month, so we're going to celebrate our LGBTQ+ Community 11 months a year, not just June, and not just our Hispanic Community from September 15th to October 15th. So this is a continuance of celebrating and recognizing and spotlighting the uniqueness and what makes tennis and Texas really special so thank you both for your Insight there. And again, I take that a little personally from the standpoint of what I can do more to be inspired by your words to make sure that we are really living and celebrating those stories.
Joaquin: I just want to say ‘thank you’ for that work. I mean it's absolutely important, so thank you.
Erica: Thank you for thanking me, that's quite an honor.
As we move into closing, I certainly wanted to hear from you all in terms of your experience growing up in your connection to tennis. Obviously, with your identities as members of the Hispanic Community, what can the USTA do better to make the Texas tennis community look more like the state of Texas.
Julian: Well thank you for what you, Erica, and the USTA are doing now. In terms of outreach and understanding where those opportunities are to expand, to expand the number of people who are playing tennis and their backgrounds, I think it's just fundamentally important work in setting a tone that everybody can be part of this game and then going out there and being part of the solution. In terms of making the game more accessible to people wherever they're at and changing the image of tennis from one that is “exclusive and elite” sometimes seen that way to the reality, I think that anybody can pick up a racket and learn how to play, love this game, and enjoy it for a lifetime the way that we have. I think if you had asked our mom when we were really young, did she think we were going to end up playing tennis for a lifetime, she probably would have said “no.” But we did, and we did that for the middle of the west side of San Antonio on public courts. My hope is that we can see more and more opportunities for young kids in the Latino Community to do that.
Joaquin: Yeah, I hope that the USTA will continue to strengthen its efforts to get into the schools of Latino communities across America and encourage our kids to to take up tennis, to play tennis, and also help expose them to the tennis stars of today that can Inspire them either to get started or to continue with their tennis. I think that would be a wonderful thing this sport has just been it's given personal given me so much fun over the years you know especially when I beat Julian or I hit a good shot against him and
Julian: …a little bit of frustration too. [laughing]
Joaquin: Yeah, some frustration … that's true, but it's just been wonderful and what I would wish for for other Latino youngsters and just anybody, is that they have the opportunity to have that same fun and same enjoyment in the years ahead.
Erica: Before we close, [...] I want to just thank you for being representatives of not only people of color not only Texans but just everything that you do in terms of inspiring people who learn about your story and and want to emulate it because they see it's possible because they're seeing what you all have done and what you'll continue to do still with with many decades ahead of you to continue to make our not only our state but our country better. So certainly, from that standpoint, I couldn't have been happier to learn about your connection to our sport and being able to host you for this conversation, but definitely for all that you've done to inspire people and to hopefully bring a couple extra folks out to the tennis courts.
So before we close, any final remarks from either you and in terms of anything that we've spoken about that you wanted to elaborate on or anything that we didn't get to that you wanted to have contributed to this conversation?
Julian: I wish everybody a lot of fun: enjoy out there playing tennis and invite folks to be a part of this larger tennis community and celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month. We're very proud of our background and really love the game of tennis and the more that we see other Latinos have the opportunity to play it, to be a part of it, the happier that'll make us.
Joaquin: Oh, you know San Antonio, I'm very proud to represent my hometown of San Antonio. San Antonio is the seventh largest city in the country and it's the largest city with the majority Latino population: it's about 64-65 percent Latino or Hispanic. I would put a bug in the ear of the USTA to help us get a 500 or above tennis tournament one day in San Antonio so that the young kids here in this very Latino City can go and watch the very best players in the world compete. When you talk about inspiring people to join a sport, just like they go watch the Spurs, they go watch a soccer team, people go to drive to Dallas to watch the Dallas Cowboys, you know one day I'd like them to be able to here in San Antonio watch the best [tennis] players in the world compete for a title.
Erica: I will tell anyone watching this that I did not set up Joaquin to say that!
Julian: You've been lobbying for that already.
Erica: I'm thrilled to share with you and all of our viewers that the All-American Cup is a new event coming to San Antonio, November 11-13. Francis Tiafoe, the American player from the US Open who made it to the semifinals, will be playing in the American Cup right there in San Antonio. It’s led by recent American [professional player and] retiree Nick Monroe and his father who have organized the event. So next month, the American Cup featuring some of the best players in the world will be right there in San Antonio. I'll stop my plug but thank you very much Joaquin for opening the door for me to share that.
Joaquin: Yes, thank you.
Erica: Thank you all for joining us for another episode of Inclusive Perspectives From the Baseline. Thank you again to Julian and Joaquin Castro for your time and we look forward to seeing you for the next episode. Thank you so much.
